Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Latest ATP Gouge
Attached are a couple of word documents from the latest ATP checkride.

Attached Files
.docx   KORK ATP gouge.docx (Size: 136.47 KB / Downloads: 43)
Here is updated gouge from our new DPE.  More to follow soon.

Attached Files
.pdf   GougeMay2016Seneca.pdf (Size: 20.94 KB / Downloads: 50)
ATP gouge

        Tell me about the engines?
        What kind of fuel?
        What happens to the gear, without electrical power?
        How's our CG?
        What controls prop speed?
        Can we fly in icing? Discuss boots, hot plate, etc...
        Can one alternator run everything?
        Are the instruments vacuum?
        Talk to me about manual gear extension, where's the handle?
        Can we burn the fuel in the wing of a failed engine, in the other?
        Talk to me about LAHSO.
        what does stabilized approach mean to you?
        Which is longer, accelerate/stop, or accelerate/go?
        How much gas do we have, and how long will it last?
        He asked what the fences on the wing tips are for, they are not stall devices, they just shield light....
        He asked what the scoops on the left engine are.. Air conditioning..
        Does this airplane have a heater, where does it get its fuel?
        Know oxygen requirements.. How high can we fly in this airplane?
        Know the basic V speeds, specifically concerning engine out.
        We talked awhile on single engine performance, drag, the importance of efficiently configuring for SE ops, etc.
        Verbalize holding basics, while accomplishing
        He's big on tight records and log book entries.. If yours is gooned up, make sure you have your flight records.

A quick scan of the POH will prepare you adequately for the oral. That and basic recip twin theory.

Examiner is a great guy, professional, no nonsense. He is cordial and big picture, knowing that you'll not know everything about the Seneca. I treated it as a CFIC style check ride and verbalized everything; LIDS checks, Time, turn, throttles, twist, track...... etc.  He actually demonstrated the engine failure, and a steep turn, but I wouldn't plan on it. It was as if he wanted to lighten the mood. He was like, "my airplane, watch this" and he pulled a motor confirmed, feathered, and configured, all in about 4 seconds.. He's real big on getting rid of drag (feather, flaps, gear), and stepping on half a ball. He has a great deal of respect for military pilots.. Use pleases, thank you's, yes Sir, no Sir, and don't be a tool bag, and you'll be fine.. He was really just evaluating basic airmanship and situational awareness. He did a lot of talking (instructing) in the pre-brief so listen up, lots of bones thrown.. sts.
David Vaughan DPE Gouge:
Overall, David was a straight forward and fair examiner. He didn't have any experience in the Piper Seneca (this particular model anyway) but it hardly showed (except for closing the door, so make sure you can do that from the other seat which Seth thankfully showed me how to do the day prior).  

Admin: Basic stuff, make sure you have everything listed on Seth/Mike's site and your ICARA account already built with hours put in (and login info memorized/written down). He wasn't as familiar with the SARM printout but didn't question anything if you have well over the min hours. Also don't forget your DPE fee! 

Ground: He has a checklist he uses for all his checkrides so he slowly just works his way down the sheet. Questions:
1. Determine Airworthiness, briefly go over AD's, logbook, etc. 
2. Reviewed FAA Special Emphasis items (mainly talked about positive aircraft control and CFIT)
3. Can we climb single engine? We went over the performance chart for this one and eventually got into Accel/Stop Distance etc. 
4. Briefly discussed Vmc. 
5. Do we have a critical engine and why do we bank into the good engine
6. How do you extend the gear manually and how can I verify it's down without DC power?
7. What feathers the props? 
8. What kind of fuel pumps do we have and where are they located?
9. How is the cabin heated and what are the risks of a heated cabin (carbon monoxide can we detect?)
10. How do we crossfeed fuel?
11. Does this plane have an alternate static source? 
12. Does this plane have an emergency exit?
13. What's Vmc, Vr, Vy, Vyse, etc.
14. Discuss anti-icing system
15. Show/compute weight and balance for today
16. Does this plane have an MEL?
17. Briefly discussed STARS and how you would load one in the plane
18. Explain spin recovery procedures

He was very easy to fly with, would tell you exactly what he wanted you to do or fly and would answer questions about the profile if you had any. Makes you put on foggles right after takeoff and except for landings and circle, makes you fly with them the entire time. We had a small rain storm move in and another checkride while we were flying so we mixed the profile up a bit. 
1. T/O KSRC 19 proceeded east for stalls, steep turns, unusual attitudes, emergency descent. Prefers power off stall in the turn to be clean config. 
2. Direct VITLS for RNAV 19 LPV missed approach engine failure on missed
3. Vectors ILS 01 missed approach direct CERCY for hold (he asked what kind of entry I was going to do and I told him Parallel which was procedurally correct but he prefers Teardrop if it's close). 
4. Exiting hold, RNAV 19 approach single engine full stop no flap
5. Instrument T/O with engine failure on T/O
6. Vectors LOC 01 Partial Panel circle to land
7. Taxiied back around for rejected takeoff
Aircraft Piper Turbo Seneca II.  DPE Joe Meyers.  Searcy RNAV 19 and ILS profile.  I was not a light twin or general aviation guy but survived the crash course.  Ditto other gouge plus the following:

Be prepared to chair fly engine failure (7 items: rudder first, bank, power, airspeed Vmc-Vyse, identify, verify, feather).
Be able to run the climb performance chart to derive a maximum altitude for standard day.  This of course leads to legal limit for O2.  Know what the charts tell you and what they don't, such as accel-go.  I was asked most of what is mentioned previously.  In some cases he asked a question vaguely and wouldnt clarify to avoid "telling you how to answer".  Give your best answer and just see where the discussion goes as he may be looking to see you think.  We ended up on inverted spin recovery theory at one point but that was definitely off the track.
General systems questions on walk-around.  Scoop on right forward fuselage is for avionics cooling.  I did a pax briefing and takeoff EP briefing even though I was "single pilot".  
Fussing with door latch - don't let him get you to pass the hold short line thinking he will be able to close the door, you might have to pull it closed from across the cockpit.
Be prepared for Vx climbs & Vy climbs shortly after takeoff using Full power. He wanted Red line then back a bit vs inching up to redline.  Watch those turbos!
Area work, expect to wear the Foggles the whole time.  Be prepared to run your profile but expect him to "suggest" maneuvers and sequence. Remember you are the PIC, though.  I.e., he did not want to wait for full 90deg clearing turns but that's what the FAA wants (ref. door open past hold short line trick).  He stresses you are the PIC but he also wants to drive the profile.  
Consider each maneuver as a separate event, and be ready to stitch them together in whatever sequence he asks for.  I ended up in multiple steep turns in the same direction, while he then asked me to do other stuff like climb and set up an approach.  Steep turns followed stalls and were thus at 90 KIAS vs cruise speed.

He may give partial simulated clearances, such as - heading OR altitude, or "maintain THIS altitude" while you are in a climb.  Ask if you're not sure what your target is.

He expected a cruise prop setting for area work vs props forward as CFI suggested.

Unusual attitude.  "Head in your Lap and close your eyes" - THEN he takes the controls to set it up, a bit awkward.

He directed engine shutdown without engine cooling, perhaps coming form a non-turbo recently.  I should have insisted on cooling them.  Failed right engine while covering up the mixture control.  Had me skip troubleshooting, straight to restart.  I tried to prime the engine to restart, and he said.  "There's no prime"  Of course engine wouldn't start until I primed it on the third try.  Ran the steps from memory twice then got out the checklist to be sure.  

"Lower the flaps" (meaning the handle) vs. "raise the flaps"

Remember Standard rate = 17deg (and use that turn coordinator thingy)

Know the avionics programming routines i.e. For Redirect to LYONN for RNAV 19 with Garmin 750: Don't do D to (you have to type it in) and don't mistype "LYONS", and lose your approach, then have to reset it.  Just hit "Activate".

While Climbing in turn to heading: I was directed to "set up for ILS approach".  Wants to see you divide attention while hand flying.

Simulated tricky ATC Instructions while Holding along ILS course - "report established".  (Not cleared for approach).  Then  "Cleared for approach" when 600' high at FAF, not configured.  What would you do?  Apparently getting another turn (1st try), or configuring early (2nd try) is not the correct answer.  I believe he wants to see you "save" a slam dunk start vs. the Air Force style conservative stable approach response.  

Transitioning from GPS hold to approach after multiple turns, know how to verify passing the fix.  What is DS in upper left of ASPEN display? I still havent figured that out.  Know your programming.

On ILS approach, anticipating an impromptu engine-out circle (per previous gouge and in line with my expected task sequence), I planned to hold the gear until the base turn.  I then "broke out" and was directed to "Land".  I executed a two-engine go-around.  Next ILS became partial panel (tape over Aspen EADI/EHSI).  Revert to (ADI, VOR/ILS OBS, and compass or cross panel DG (which luckily I correctly set before takeoff...the parallax error almost offset the precession error from the area work steep turns and stalls by that point - neat!). This ILS did become a circle (something about a bunch of traffic at the airport), which by the perch point then became a no-flap, which then became a right engine failure during the final turn.  "You don't have time to feather it, just land".  Never did get the prop to full forward before landing.  While turning off runway, he asked if he could open the door and was told "No, wait until we're clear" (okay, maybe I yelled a little bit). 

Overall a very generous result but be prepared for the change ups, and maybe give yourself a little heads-down raw data practice to the +\- 5, 50, 1/4 scale standard if you're coming from a lot of HUD time.
Examiner: David Vaughn

-Weight and balance. He asked how do you find the intial weights (forms) and how do you calculate one column to the next.
-Went through the forms very fast. He wanted to see the annual, VOR, altimeter/static checks. I said when each expired and how long they're good for. No more questions after that on requirements.
-FAA Special Emphasis Items: Positive Aircraft Control, LAHSO
-Discussed what positive aircraft control is and different situations as examples
-LAHSO: Just know the basics
-Airport markings. He pulled up the FAA Airport Markings flashcards which you can download on the FAA website. It was basic
-How do you recover from a spin?
-Tell me about the propeller. What controls the pitch? Governor
-Tell me about the landing gear. How do you emergency extend the gear?
-Does this plane have a heater? What are some dangers with it? Carbon monoxide, fire, common sense stuff that isn't in the POH. Know the 1/2 gallon per hour out of the left tank
-Had a basic Vmc discussion. Look over how different things affect it
-Does this plane have anti-ice? I described the system
-Can we cross-feed? How? Yes, level flight only
-He had to walk back inside to grab his headset so I did the walk around without him. I don't know if he would have asked any questions or not.

I had a full profile planned the way I wanted to do it. He changed his plan to match mine so I knew what was coming for the most part. He did the reject on initial takeoff and after I closed the throttles he said I could continue or taxi back around. I just continued. For the partial panel approach he only covers the Aspen so you still have the other screen to give you some SA.
Here is what my lastest customer had for the ATP course.  Thanks Mike for the kind words!

BLUF – Seth Lake has developed an effective and efficient program that works.   For me, it spanned three days and two nights.  The days were intense and fun.  I had accomplished some studying (General FAR’s and AIM) before arrival and continued during the three days (Aircraft systems / performance and focus areas suggested by Seth) that I was there.   This is not a pay and get your ticket program.  This IS a program that prepares you for the ATP check-ride in two flights, and check on the third.   My DPE was Mr. Joe Myers.  I would not hesitate flying another check with him!   Mr. Myers is a very fair evaluator with a wide aperture, yet you will complete all of the PTS’s to FAA standards.
Background – I have 500+ General aviation hours (Cessna, Beechcraft and Piper) and 3000 military hours (T-37 IP/EP & B-52 IP/EP).  Upon showing up at Searcy I had ZERO hrs of piston multi engine time!
Pre-Game – I read about Seth in a few aviation forums.  I contacted him and he was able to schedule the 3 days of training where it fit my schedule best.  He was very responsive in accommodating the apartment, aircraft and examiner requirements of my timeline.  
Day 1 – Arrived @ Searcy – I met the General Manager at Flying C aviation.  They provided the airplane and the hangar apartment.  Seamless! Seth had briefed these guys up and they took care of me.  The airplane was down for MX when I arrived, yet they had an A&P working the issue and promised to have it ready that night for flying and they did.  I got checked into the apartment, unpacked and started studying the aircraft flight manual.  ~ 1600 Seth arrived at the airport.  I flew a 2.1 hr sortie which was the check-ride profile.  Seth was great IP in the plane and had me understanding the how the PTS were going to be accomplished.  Debrief was about 1.5 hours – Seth pointed out area of improvement and areas where I needed to continue to focus.  
Day 2 – Woke at 0700 and started studying.  I seriously focused on the aircraft systems and the GK that the examiner was likely to ask.  I also reviewed the FAA Special Interest Items.  Seth’s and Mike’s website has a wealth of info on the DPE’s common GK questions.   I flew another 2.1 hr sortie.  I started feeling comfortable in the airplane but not overly so.  After the flight, another debrief with Seth laying out the plan of action for the next day.  I asked Seth if I was ready for the flight check.  I told him I had no problem flying another sortie.  He assured me I was ready and I took his word for it.  He has guided 100+ guys to successfully pass their ATP ride. Trust him.  You will not feel comfortable going to a check ride with 4.2 hours under your belt, but if he says your ready… you are ready.
Day 3 – Check with Mr. Myers.  He showed promptly at 1300 and we spent the first 45 mins getting everything right in IACRA.  No major issues here.  I had my USAF ARMS report in a binder and my civilian log books ready.    Overall I the oral was about 2 hours long.  Mr. Myres gave me a scenario in which I was going to fly a passenger from KSRC to KABQ.  From this all kinds of questions ensued.  These questions spanned aircraft systems, aircraft performance, FAR’s, Physiology and aviation weather.  This was actually a really relaxed event and Mr. Myers was acting more as a student pilot with probing questions.  It was just laid back and much more like two guys talking aviation.  However make sure you know your GK.  If there is something that you don’t know, own it and look it up.  No foul.  Don’t BS the man.  The flight portion was also very laid back.  Like any other flight, my performance wasn’t 100% perfect, however as the profile progressed I was feeling more at home in the PA-23-250 than I had they day before.   Seth had me ready.   Profile was T/O to airwork to instrument approaches @ KSRC.  The check-ride was 2.8 hours.   I passed without issue, total time from start to finish 6.0 hours with some dedicated study time.  
Summery – I highly recommend the team of Seth Lake and Flying C aviation.  They have their stuff in one sock and that leads to a seamless program for the ATP candidate.  Folks went out of their way to make sure I had what I needed to succeed.   Mr. Myers is a retired U.S. Army aviator, and a chief pilot for a 135 Company in addition to being a DPE.  He has been around and seen a lot more than I have.  He made me sweat and perform but his aperture is wide and he has the big picture.  I have already recommended these folks to guys that I fly with in the military.  If I could go back in time would I make the same choice?  Absolutely, without a doubt!!!!  Everyone was top notch!

Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)